The Decline of Christian Values in Contemporary Christian Music and Modern Churches
June 27, 2024
Talking Points From the Book of Ephesians
July 6, 2024
Ephesians 4 teaches us a lot about a subject that frankly we as Christians should always be interested in keeping close to our hearts… and that is being Accountable One to another…
In general we are… in most things in our everyday life we are accountable to the traffic laws, to the tax laws, in work we stay accountable to our managers or supervisors… the end result is that we get along great and learn and grow and pursue to grow more.
Then there is the Christian side of things… and I am very much guilty of this as well… On the Christian side of things we are very very very often NOT accountable.
We don’t want to be told we are wrong… we don’t want to be told that we missed it… and by all means we don’t want to even think for a second that some doctrine, belief, or idea that we love and hold dearly – could possibly be wrong.
For example… Take the doctrine of tithing and offering.
If you think the preachers are only out to get your money… no one can tell you differently that the Word of God may have something to say in that area and that perhaps … just perhaps you may need to go study that area a bit more.
Bro. Kenneth Hagin once said – speaking to his church in regards to speaking in tongues.. that it was not for today… that it was in fact passed away and that any evidence of it today was lies and of the devil… (now before you stop me and post a response based off of that comment alone… let me finish) …
He said that when he has told that statement to his church… he had to stop himself and declare that he had not fully studied that before and he had no proper basis to say that from the pulpit.
Later on in life he was teaching and preaching on all the Gifts of the Spirit and tongues he found out was very much for today.
At that moment when he from the pulpit (before he became WOF) he was very much accountable to God and his congregation concerning his teachings. He did the right thing and declared that he had not studied that subject and he indeed did the right thing.
Today however there are many well intentioned people that have no such qualms about saying this and that or the other thing in regards to Christian teaching and subjects… that are not accountable to ANYONE and when you even suggest the slightest hint of the fact that you may not agree 100 percent to what they said… it is YOU that gets called into doubt.
Now I am speaking from personal experiences here – I will not say or tell what happened or the who or what or why… but I just feel like rambling on a bit in regards to this… so humor me.
Eph. 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph. 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph. 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
If I meet someone on the street and we don’t know each other from Adam… but after a few moments we find out that we are both Christians and serious about the call of God on our lives…
we sit and have a cup of coffee together and begin to fellowship…
Me: “Well brother (or sister) what is on your heart to do with your life?”
Someone: “Well I am very much interested in working with animals to lead them to the Lord. My home church is very much interested in sending out people into the world for missions and I always wanted to work with animals… so I want to preach the Gospel to the animals.. thats my heart.”
Me: “Sorry you mean the rough and tough areas and people right?”
Someone: “No no… not people.”
Me: “Animals??”
Someone: “Oh yes. I read in the bible during my study time with the Lord – I felt His presence – I was in Awe and in worship towards Him and the Bible fell open to Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ”
Me: “um…”
Someone: “For the last 2000 years the church has been focused on PEOPLE and not animals. So I am following the leading of the Lord and preaching the Gospel to animals.”
Me: ” I don’t think that is what the scripture meant in that particular verse exactly…”
Someone: “You sound just like my pastor at my home church… he said the SAME thing. Thats where the church keeps missing it… the bible also says later on in Col. 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister… you see PAUL taught to the animals as well… He got it right. ”
Me: “Animals?”
Someone: “Yes, powerful revelation isn’t it?”
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Ok, ok extreme example there… but I promise you there is someone in the world that thinks like that.
In this example we have a few options.
A. Pulling out the Strongs, the Vines, the Amplified, the Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries and starting a bible study right then and there and Hope and Pray that they are receptive and listen to the deeper meaning of the verse.
B. Smack them on the head and shout at them saying “Jesus did not shed His blood for animals.”
C. Pat them on the back and say “Wow let me follow you ‘oh wise one.”
D. Try to correct them in love, some examples and some other scripture and then if the are receptive or not… leave it alone.
E. Try to correct them in love and then run for cover as the coffee cups, chairs and tables start flying through the air at you for casting doubt on their spiritual life and ability to hear from God.
Unfortunately – more often then not we see that (E.) happens and we end up getting hurt for our efforts of trying to help a brother (or sister) out.
Eph. 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
You understand some things better than I do… and vice versa.
We are all part of a body… fitly joined together.
Eph. 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
The result of our misunderstanding this concept is that as we grow confident in our own understanding and concepts and mental pictures and Schemas (our bubble of perception and understanding that we filter everything through) –
…The end result is that correction – or suggestion of our own possible fallibility in our grand understanding of things is perceived as an attack on our person and the Bible clearly says that this should not be the case.
Eph. 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph. 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph. 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The perfecting of the Saints?
The PERFECTING of the Saints??
Is this scripture possibly suggesting that we as believers are not completely perfect at this VERY moment?? (Sarcasm – sorry)
It is when we come together – in LOVE and teach and share and strengthen one another that we get to work together towards that goal of one day in the Faith becoming perfected – the suggestion here is as silver – Silver can NEVER be 100% pure – impurities and flaws in the silver always come to the surface when it is heated.
As saints working to be perfected together – we will always find things that are wrong, need to be purified, cleaned out of us and it is a continual process.
DOCTRINE –
Eph. 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph. 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph. 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
We live in a day and age where the WORD of God flows freely, and the word that sounds like the WORD of God flows even more profusely.
If we think that anyone that opens their mouth with a bible in their hand is infallible then we are seriously deluded and we lose our effectiveness in the Kingdom.
We as Christians need to be VERY VERY aware that there are WINDS of Doctrine that come through the body of Christ… it comes through the WHOLE body…
Remember that WIND is not something with substance… you can only see the effects of the thing… and not the thing that is behind it…
A wind will seem to have real substance to us at first… but if you Press in … you will find that you can stand against it and it will have little or no effect on you.
Winds of Doctrine seem real…. they seem genuine and true… but with the substance behind it being insubstantial in itself… it can be dismissed.
The DOCTRINE of the Word of God has substance… does not need outside sources and extra references from studies and (experiences) so on… Biblical Doctrines can be found in the Bible.. . 99.9 percent of the time… True Bible Doctrines can be found just by reading the Word of God and not from piecing together your own pre-conceived ideas – something you heard from someone else… and then trying to find where in the Word that fits the same concept… no matter how hard it is to make it stretch into place.
Biblical Doctrines is a stable, sound, steadfast foundation on which we build our knowledge of the Word of God.
Things like Salvation, Healing, Prosperity, Faith, Wisdom, and so on… these are things that you can go to most ANY Bible College and learn about.
Eph. 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph. 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
We have seen in times past where denominations formed around people that just wanted to teach the Word of God and set people free… many times the same people that said… ‘For God’s sake don’t start a movement and a church after me’ (my paraphrase) as one Martin Luther said..
He saw in his time where he loved his own church so much that he was willing to just suggest some changes here and there to save it… Martin Luther loved the Roman Church. He worked to save it from within for many a year.
Instead of leadership saying… ‘Hey this guy has a point…’
it rose up and said ‘How dare you, we are more learned than you, we hear from God ourselves and if we say that God said thus and thus – you better just go along with it… ‘
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In today’s Christian World… we need people to have the freedom to be able to stand up and ask questions… seek the Word of God for themselves and not get things out of order.
What a man or a woman of God – (or even one that says that they are) – needs to be, is accountable for the doctrine they teach.
They need to line up with the Word of God… and not they making the WORD line up with them.
Many many pastors have said from the pulpit that “You are not to take my word for it… take the Word of God and search it for yourself.”
The Pastor, the preacher the teacher, apostles and so on… have to line up with the Word…
They need to be accountable to it… not it to themselves.
Eph. 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph. 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph. 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph. 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph. 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Pet Doctrines –
I have a pet doctrine… I freely admit it and know that its a pet doctrine and its not NOT a biblical doctrine.
I cannot open up the bible and point to the words where it plainly states – thus thus and thus – and it tells exactly what my pet doctrine believes…. it can’t happen.
We all have them… few of us are willing to admit it.
Imagine your own cat or dog… or parrot… whatever you have for the sake of this example… and you feed it… you care for it… you watch it… you judge it against other pets… you brag about it… so on and so forth.
A pet doctrine is a form of a Wind of Doctrine… but it got stuck on us… or more likely .. its a wind that we are trying to fan the breeze and strength up a little more and want to pass it on to others to help us feel better about carrying it for so long.
A pet doctrine can also be described as a delusion.
TRUE STORY – an acquaintance of mine… from some place and some time… said with all certainty and boldness that he heard from the Spirit of God clear as day and knew that he heard God clearer than anything…
Until one day that belief came into question.
He acted on the belief that he heard so clearly from God that he went and told someone about their personal life (to correct them) and got everything wrong.
Bless his heart… he was in my opinion well intentioned… but he did not have the right understanding about how a Christian by and large… hears from God.
His imagination.
He got it in his head that if he could picture things in his imagination and could visualize something and use his “intuition” – That was what he called hearing from God. It was all in his head.
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God speaks in a still small voice in the inner man.
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Ok enough rambling… what is my point?
Word of Faith is going strong. Praise God.
Happy about it.
No doubt it’s a good thing.
Honestly.
Word of Faith is not a denomination.
We do not have a pope.
There is no church council to set standards from what we are to believe and not to believe. (not that there should be either)
The Word of God should be our guide. (if we can see it in the book great. If not take another look at the teaching)
We will NEVER EVER EVER agree on anything in the fullness of what the Word has for us or could possibly offer us…
The opposite is true as well… given the number of people that say (I am WOF) and the number of winds that effect them, the pet doctrines they carry… the way they say they may be hearing from God or not… We will Never Ever ever agree on every point and teaching… so stop trying to force it to be so…
Kenneth Hagin was not the first Pope of WOF church
Nor is Kenneth Copeland… and so on and so on.
No man on this planet was infallible, is infallible, could be infallible… save for JESUS and Jesus Christ ALONE.
To believe otherwise is very very dangerous and delusional.
WOF is not a religion… there are no membership rolls to sign – no conventions that has to be attended – and certainly no one person that can be pointed to and declared to be the one whom everything that he says is the same as God saying it.
If you think that way.. you just declared the person a pope.
My point is this… and my conclusion….
Study the Word of God for yourself along-side any teaching you may hear no matter WHO says it.
If the Word lines up Wonderful… if it doesn’t then you need to make a note of it to study more and try to see who missed what where.
By and large I am WOF – a proud WOF and I will be thrilled to see WOF grow more and more… let us remember to keep the Word of God before our eyes more than the person or personality we may be listening to on the Christian TV.
Eph. 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
It is this that I wanted to say. No man has the right to say “Thus saith the Lord… ” and you not be able to find it in the Word of God.
It has to line up.
I am not speaking specifically about anything… or anyone… but just wanted to encourage you to guard your hearts… your eyes… and your ears to keep yourself strong in the power of His Word and that with it you can stand when the winds blow and the world shake around you.
Thanks for letting me ramble.
God bless
While I was posting that last night my wife kept nudging me to get me to get to sleep… posted at 1 something I think.
As a result the whole post may have lost the soft curve I was trying to put into it. So just to redirect… I believe in the Word of Faith tenants and beliefs as most on fire christians do… the beliefs are pretty much just basic Bible Doctrine taught properly.
How often have we heard about the winds that came through the body… in the extreme cases things like (When the Spirit of God moves you must bark like a dog) or as Rusty Martin once said (the evangelist – not the race car driver) – He spent a month in one church to correct the doctrine of the church… some muppet went through and taught them that since we are God’s Children – when His spirit shows up in a service and the anointing starts to move on the people… that you are supposed to become like infants… whine and cry and suck your thumb crawl around and so on. (Seriously – this is what a church was taught by someone!)
But in saying all of that… there is powerful truth and life changing teaching that comes from the WOF camp…
However there is a danger on majoring on minor issues, missing the point… in favor of feeding your pet doctrines – straining at the gnat and swallowing the fly so to speak.
I intended this as an encouragement in one sense and a warning in the other. The Move of God that the Church is waiting for will come from those that run with the basic truth and power and freedom of the Gospel. Not from people that want to push their own agendas on others.
A minister in our circle recently said – that the church is waiting on REFORMATION not Revival.
The Power of God is here and now.
The Anointing Flows when we put demand on the Word.
The lost get saved when the Word of Salvation is taught.
People are getting healed now.
Miracles are happening all of the time in places all around the world… All this is available to us NOW.
So what is the church waiting on?
Its waiting on someone to come to the church and push its buttons and pat it on the back and stir the people up into acting… This should not be the case.
When was the last time that you witnessed to your neighbor, your mailman, your lost relatives… when was the last time you prayed for someone that was NOT a christian for healing?
What are we waiting for?
We have the tools, yet we seem to be waiting for a booming voice from Heaven to say “GO YE INTO THE WORLD”
Well He already told us that 2000 years ago!
The Word of Faith movement has all the possibilities as being the kick and push that the church needs for this hour… yet if all we do is sit around and compare beliefs and teachings one with another… then congratulations you have accomplished all you ever will.
When I went to Bible College – there was a couple that was about 80 years old in age each… they were going BACK out into the mission field and wanted to get a refresher course on the Bible to go back out and pour it into others again…
AGAIN i say because they had just spent 35 years in the mission field already – planted 20 churches and tried to retire and realized that they could not do it.
They came to the conclusion that if they retired they might as well buy graves and jump in… they had nothing to live for without their calling and the ministry.
You know the most profound thing they told me?
They said it looked like most of the church was retired already… people in their 20’s 30’s 40’s acting like they are done with their calling already because they won a few people to the Lord and seem content on sitting in the pew or the chair in the church until the Lord returns.
Not that we are all called to the mission field but the point is valid. Sitting in the church and getting fatter on the Word of God is only going to hinder the WOF movement we are now enjoying. Unless we get pushing with what we have into the world… then WOF will turn into a movement, a denomination of non-denominational churches, and a footnote in the history of the church instead of the turning point.
How many people sit in the church and listen to the teaching and the preaching from their leaders and then turn around and tell the first second and third persons they meet – “I don’t agree with what he said… Bro So and So teaches something completely different”
Remember we are Christ’s people, His church… NOT Hagin, Copeland, Duplantis, Savelle, Dollar, Wommack, Yandian – Followers.
Paul taught this very thing when he taught the church of Corinthians
(1Cor. 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Cor. 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Cor. 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Cor. 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Cor. 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cor. 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cor. 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Cor. 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. )
Is not the WOF movement dangerously close to doing the EXACT same thing that Paul is mentioning here?
So you have a favorite preacher that you receive well from… great, wonderful, fantastic even.
Yet let us major on the WORD of God together and keep the momentum going forward.
Anyway… enough of that… All that just to say I am not judging anyone… but this is a very real danger that I see happening in some circles of Christianity already.
Let us stay vigilant and ready to give account of what we KNOW to be true and less on what we Feel or Hope or Wish to be true.
The best rule of thumb EVER for doctrine is – if the Bible is silent on it… so am I. If the Bible teaches about it… I believe it.
Some pet doctrines in the Body today would NEVER EVER get a person saved… You cannot stand on a street corner and say… “Hey you – Yeah you… come here… did you know that the word in the old testament of the bible in the forth book of the second chapter of such and such is the hebrew word for candlestick? ”
The person is going to look at you strange and run away from the nut.
No you stand on the street and tell people the Gospel.
The GOOD news has nothing to do with pet doctrines… its everything to do with changing peoples lives for the better.
THE TEST….
A very VERY simple way to tell the difference between a PET DOCTRINE – or a wind of Doctrine for that matter… is this.
Can you stand in front of someone with all boldness and confidence and tell them of X doctrine and know without a shadow of a doubt that the person will give their life to the Lord as a result?
Jesus never said to do what most people seems to major on today… separate on Doctrine and beliefs and teachings into your own group and stay there and just throw attacks at the other crowd when you get a “Chance to set them right!”
A Pet Doctrine should not separate you from your brothers and sisters in the Lord.
A Pet Doctrine should not make you want to leave your church or talk bad about your Pastor just because he does not believe or see the same as you.
A Pet Doctrine warning…
If you are perfectly happy to shout at a fellow Christian and blast them time and again about what you believe and why you believe it and expect them to just “Fall in Line” with what you are saying and not talk it over and reason with them… then it is a fair bet that what your holding on to there… its a pet doctrine and the outcome of the subject time and again is going to be the same. Your going to be mad at the other person and they are going to be doubting your sanity.
An example –
A pastor friend of mine named Mike has told me before of one meeting he went to once and (as far as I can remember – if I get this wrong Mike please correct me) there was a guy there saying some really far out – off the wall kind of things – and he used scripture to back up some of it.
Mike was confused and went to talk to the person after the meeting and he asked him the Biblical Basis for what he was teaching from the pulpit. The mans response was “The Bible?? Oh I am way out beyond the Bible now… I hear from God Directly!”
Can you understand what I am saying here? Just because someone stands in front of you and says… I heard from God in this matter and you should do this… or says you should believe This — and you cannot see it in the Bible for yourself… or you cannot get an inner witness or peace about what is being said…
here is a hint… it may not REALLY be from God.
This is why you need your own foundation in the Word of God and be willing to respect others viewpoints and beliefs and teachings until you can see it for yourself one way or another.
The person may be 100% correct… but until what they are telling you and the Bible agree… put it on the side and wait before you eat it up and make it part of yourself.
In a few years time… who knows… you may see it in the Word and come to think the same way.
If your on one side of the equation or the other… the result is the same.. you need to have patience and respect to a point of others beliefs and views but try to keep a balance. They should not start shouting at you because you don’t see what they see… and you should not start shouting at them because they believe that way.
Now I say this concerning Doctrines and Beliefs and Teachings that the Bible does not directly say…
The result of which is hurt and confusion on the part of the listeners that try to talk to you about your (or their) pet doctrines that have no more basis in the Christian life than saying that you have to teach the Gospel to your goldfish.
Your responsible for your effects on other people. Seriously you are.
If you take it upon yourself to teach some pet doctrine to another as Gospel fact – and the other person just does not see it the way you do… but you turn around and say “But God told me that it is true… so your out of line with GOD” – That person may have a great call on their life… but if you hurt or injure them and cause them to fall away from the things of God and not to push in to the ministry… you will have to answer to God for it.
Jesus was not just talking about children here in .. Matt. 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
The concept is also in regards to ANY new believer or young one in Christ that is still learning and growing.
The WORD Of God is equated to them at first as Milk is to a baby.
Would you take a steak that you enjoy and eat regularly and shove it down the mouth of a baby and expect them to digest it and not choke on it? God Forbid!
Yet in the Body – Daily we see this very thing happening.
If your steak is the Word of God – Great Wonderful Terrific –
But don’t expect others to partake of it in the same way you do.
You do others Harm if you do.
Just take it for granted that they may not be in the same place as you and they need time and love and instruction over years to get to the same place you are.
The other side of the coin is true as well however…
If you are taking your PET Doctrine and doing the exact same thing and expecting seasoned Christians to believe the same as you do… and follow any portion up with “God told me it was true”
and expect them to be fine and happy with that as you are… you are sadly deluded. You come across as a (well intentioned perhaps) flakey Christian.
We have all seen people that stand beside us in church or in public that are Christians, Loves God with ALL their heart and are going to heaven… but they just got the wrong end of the stick on some point and won’t let go…
The church full of people acting like infants… Christians thinking they have to preach the gospel to animals… people grabbing you in the parking lot AFTER church – and saying “Brother I have a WORD from God for you!”
Fruits nuts and flakes… bless their hearts… God love them… but in this example… they need someone to sit them down and say… Brother the Bible teaches this about what your doing… you need some minor correction in what your doing.
Matt. 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Matt. 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Matt. 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Many Many Many pastors use this as a rule… if someone has a “word” for you that they come and share it in the presence of the elders of the church – to try it and judge it. Thus you have more to help you receive or push away the “word”
I say all of that to say this…
That we have the tight to “try” a word as in a court case. To weigh it and balance it and test its weight… to study it and accept it or reject it… the same rule (in my opinion) applies to any NEW doctrine that is strange or unusual to you.
Just because it has “Thus saith the Lord ” or “God told me so” attached You still need to weigh it and try it against the Word of God.
If your on the other side of the equation… Again – Praise God you hear God so well in your life… But Don’t expect others to RUN with everything you say just because you say “God said so”
We are all part of a Body and we all have our function and our place… You are NOT my pastor, your not Christ incarnate – you are not my teacher, You are my brother, my sister… at absolute most… you may be my elder in the Lord in some ways…
You are not able to look me in the eye and tell me “thus says the Lord” and expect me to believe you.
We need to hear from God for ourselves. We need to see it in the Word of God for ourselves.
The first time we ever hear the voice of the Lord is in the Gospel message – the still small voice speaks love and forgiveness in our hearts and tells us we are loved.
Now base that against the things we see Christians doing today with “THUS SAYS THE LORD” or “GOD TOLD ME IT WAS TRUE” on any given subject… and see the result of the person not agreeing with them – the violence – the strife and the abuse and anger that seems to follow… it just does not add up.
I hear God daily. I listen and talk to Him from Moment to Moment.
I study the Word, I listen to teaching and preaching inside and outside of the Church… as most do.
I take notes for points that I did not know before. I have my Bible open and use a pen to paper to take down relevant points of information for myself… as most do.
And then… as I am listening to any given message… I have an inner conversation going on in my spirit with the Spirit of God.
Things like gentle correction on a given topic – other references the Holy Spirit gives me based off the Word being taught…
Him bringing things to my remembrance – scripture, real life examples, promptings to do this or that… AS MOST DO…
I have had supernatural experiences sometimes miracles on a daily basis… but I do not base my beliefs off of experience and I will never stand in the pulpit and TEACH my experiences as if they were WORD OF GOD.
There are things that God has spoken to me directly about and personally for my life – this does not mean I turn around and teach “Thus says the Lord” to every person for their own lives the same thing.
I don’t have a tattoo – yet I have no real problems with anyone that does and christian or not… wants to get one. (small problems perhaps but anyways)
I believe a certain thing that the Bible teaches as a principle and it is the way I live my life based of the principle and ideal that I see it telling me and I do not force my views on another. If they ask and want to talk it over… I will share it. Yet even then its not a TSTL situation.
I don’t drink, smoke, use drugs, etc…
However if another Christian wants to do so… well I will pray for them and given the chance will share with them that they don’t have to be that way… yet its not a TSTL situation either.
So when in any given situation any christian elevates themselves to the point where they are saying TSTL and expects you to obediently cow down and follow along… you have another situation altogether. You have a pope… or a Super spiritual person that is in need of a wake up call. A space cadet or a flake. Bless them they surely mean well… I hope… yet they cannot see the forest for the trees.
Remember I speak of Doctrines (Winds and Pets) of accountability and of love and honor one to another… not of prophesy or correction when your in abject sin and you know it but just don’t want to be corrected.
The ORDER of the Kingdom of God is Thus…
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit
YOU
Your Spouse (family)
Your Pastor and teachers
Your Friends and fellow Christians.
NO ONE is above Jesus in your life. NO ONE!!!
Pastors preachers and teachers are servants to the Body. Pastors are shepherds to the flock… to tend to them and raise them up to the work of the Ministry.
Now in seeking council or learning and growing in God you may place people to be your (Spiritual Fathers or Mothers) over you… but YOU choose to do that. And even then… what they say, teach, and do should line up with the Word.
You see- in this modern world and the scores of Non-denom churches out there we have a tendency as humans do… to seek someone out to be the Religious equivalent of a bishop or a pope in our life to some degree… to tell us what to do – what to believe – and how to live. This is not the way it should be.
Over the Body of Christ… is Christ!
Our REAL spiritual leader is our Savior.
Anyone else is a substitute at best and should only point to HIM for your answers.
(Again I speak concerning Doctrines and beliefs that are outside the Word and not roles of the church in a Christians life)
A pastor for example as a shepherd looks around at the flock… seeks that which is good to feed them and help them grow and directs them to the best spots to graze.
A pastor should not take the sheep over-site so far as to take the sheep by force and put its head in the grass and make it bite off a bunch of grass and force it to chew.
That is abuse.
A teacher is no different – a teacher should have something from the Word that God has put on his heart to share and share it… again from the Bible.
(I only say that to preface that I do believe in the place of the Church in the Christians life and that God will call you to be at ONE church to help you grow and change – if you remember to ask Him to do so)
Yet we see in religion gone horribly wrong every day – the abuse of the cults and the false religions of the world and how they hurt and abuse their own people… yet we don’t think for one second that it could possibly be the same in some way in your own camp???
God forbid a minister telling his people to blow something up or to blow up themselves in the name of Christ…
Yet each of us can think of examples where “Christians” have done something like that in the last 20 years.
What about doctrines then? (Extra-biblical or ones that seem to be so to the listener)
Are we to open ourselves up to the point that we swallow anything that comes down the line?
Yet we do it as a whole all the time!
You and your walk with God should be a constant conversation – a constant growth and a constant cycle of learning and growing… and understanding that others around you are in the same cycle.
Thus when you disagree on something – go back and study it again perhaps your right – perhaps your wrong.
Still you walk in unity in the Faith and you can agree to disagree.
Because my Baptist brothers don’t speak in tongues can I scream and shout at them that they missed it and call into doubt their salvation? Call into doubt their ability to hear from God?
What about Love? What about peace?
Matt. 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Matt. 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Jesus instructs us to forgive and forget. It is well accepted that had one of the 12 turned around and asked Jesus – What about after seventy times seven?
You really think Jesus would have said… “No, no, no, after seventy times seven… you are allowed by God to kick them in the shin – bite their arm and pull their hair and shout lots of scripture at them at the same time”
HAHA seems ridiculous doesn’t it… yet some do this very thing because of a difference of viewpoint – belief or some varied pet or wind of doctrine… all the time.
In closing for this conversation soon I promise … I want to encourage you.
Use the inner witness of your spirit-man and your walk with God and the Word of God to TRY EVERYTHING.
If you cannot see the Word agreeing (to your understanding or comprehension) then put it to the side… at best to pick up again one day when you are able to study it again.
If you get a “TSTL” over you and your spirit-man does not “bare witness to it” again put it to the side until you can deal with it later on.
If you are talking over various doctrines and teachings and you just can’t go along with what you hear… no matter if its a “TSTL” or not.. put it to the side and deal with it later in study, or prayer and with God in your own time.
I am hesitant to point to anyone and tell them “You said you heard from God on thus and thus, and I say that God told me your in error” No one should do that lest they hinder the fellow believer…
Yet error persists, mistakes are made…
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and cary on with your calling, your ministry, your destiny and let God sort out the details.
The result of which is that while the person in error (yourself or other) keeps pressing into the things of God, the Word of God, and the pursuit of the High Calling of Christ…
That the details of some windish or petish doctrine will not matter in the long run. If your bother or yourself will not see reason (or the Word i hope) then let them be… leave it alone and move on.
If the matter persists… then its a fair bet that someone is out of line and its pushing a pet doctrine and if its you still shouting about it… take a word of advice… let it go no matter how strongly you believe in it… If others cannot see it line up with the Word of God – no matter how many people are also teaching it… put it aside as your right and their wrong even… but put it to the side.
If your the one trying to “Correct” the other in the doctrine and they are not receiving it… the same rule applies – let it go… let God deal with them and love the brother or sister in Christ anyways.
Pray that one day they see things as well as you do… but let it go… one way or the other the issue will get dealt with.
I pray that you hear the spirit and manner in which this post is intended and not the letter of the law as it may come across. It is my desire to encourage and strengthen those that fight the good fight of the faith… but also let them know that the fight is not against each other.
